Curse

-malachi- · Oct 17, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

To Fred Kiwi-nope, the price of glittering dust and ecto would equalize as long as there were drops/traders and a glittering dust thing, or at least it should, but people are dumb I guess.Why? Because the smart ones will add up how much they are spending on Glittering and figure out they are paying more than the actual Ecto or w/e is worth and go back to buying ectos until the price of glittering goes down, if it goes down.But as I said, people are dumb, and that messes up a player driven economy.

To Jessy- I see Loads of people not pick up all their drops and then complain they never make money! I made 3k in maybe a few hours just running around presearing, and thats not counting all my dye drops...money wasn't that hard to come by back in my pve days, now if I want to farm though I go do it in an mmo with better rewards for my time, pvp ftw....(and in case your thinking it, no I am not one of "those" pvp jackasses, you know the ones who use "n00bs" between everyother swearword they throw out in a childish attempt to make others mad, no all chat for viewing enjoyment :P )

Loviatar · Oct 17, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

to me a LONG TERM goal is in the neighborhood of playing or in this case farming (however you make your gold) for at least 1-2 hours per day for at least 6 months to a year for the best.

LETS SEE HOW IT FITS.

as per the given figures

3000k

1.5k per run per 5 minutes equals 18k per hour.

3000k divided by 18k gives 166 days at 1 hour per day.

166 days divided by 30 days equals...........well bless my heart

...5.5 months

2 hours/day is only 3 months

REASONABLE for the top item

Igedit · Oct 17, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

The way I see it, there is already very little payoff for acquiring the FoW, aside from self-satisfaction.

Other people only see you in towns. Assuming you're adventuring most of the time, nobody but your party ever even sees it. I know I, personally, don't run around town looking at other's armor.

Keeping the stats the same is mandatory, but maybe it should have some kind of "glow" or something to stand out more.

I can understand the need for a gold sink, due to the lack of uber weapons, etc.

But I wonder what will happen when/if Anet allows different clothing to be worn in towns? Who will see your uber-expensive armor then? Devourers?

Will we have FoW evening gowns or tuxedos? Designer jeans?

Loviatar · Oct 17, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igedit

But I wonder what will happen when/if Anet allows different clothing to be worn in towns? Who will see your uber-expensive armor then? Devourers?

Will we have FoW evening gowns or tuxedos? Designer jeans?

bet on it as it is a MASSIVE gold sink waiting to happen

Melkor of ZoSo · Oct 17, 2005, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I understand everyon'es point about the money sink and what not...

But ANet is encouraging the very thing they're trying to discourage by accepting such high prices. There's no such thing as supply and demmand on a video game. If the gamedev wanted to make the price of Fissure Armor 1g, they could do it. If their prices encourage people to try and earn 1000k by making prices for something so high in demand, they're just encouraging people to farm and get gold off Ebay.

It's unrealistic of ANet to keep prices so unatainable.

It's like the policeman giving away free money on one side of the street, but telling you you can't cross the street. How does ANet expect us to reach this amazing goal if the only way we can reach it is by breaking thier laws.

lord_shar · Oct 17, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor of ZoSo

I understand everyon'es point about the money sink and what not...

...<SNIP>...
There's no such thing as supply and demmand on a video game.
...<SNIP>...

Absolutely incorrect. Please read this article about the multi-billion-dollar industry surrounding virtual mmorpg property:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/09/17/pl...ney/index.html

...and this one about an online virtual-property "mugger" getting arrested in real life for his online actions:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/08/22/ma..._for_stealing/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkor of ZoSo

It's unrealistic of ANet to keep prices so unatainable.

It's like the policeman giving away free money on one side of the street, but telling you you can't cross the street. How does ANet expect us to reach this amazing goal if the only way we can reach it is by breaking thier laws.

Also incorrect... those wearing fissure armor are living proof that these items are attainable. Nope, they're not meant to be free -- they are cosmetic status symbols meant to illustrate how much time + effort you're willing to invest in GW. The three reasons why most players appreciate FoW armor are 1) rarity 2) expense 3) unique graphics. Taking any of these factors away to make the FoW "look" more attainable will simply destroy their mystique.

If you can invest the time and effort to get FoW armor, then more power to you in GW, but this also means less time available to invested in real-life. No matter how we spend our individual time available, we all have a finite amount. I prefer using my time to make REAL, tangible money... that's why I own some VERY expensive real-life toys.

I also have some decent GW-items, but I also had to make some real-life sacrifices to attain them (like the chagrin of my better half)...

Loviatar · Oct 18, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

[QUOTE=Melkor of ZoSo]they're just encouraging people to farm and get gold off Ebay.

It's unrealistic of ANet to keep prices so unatainable.

QUOTE]

first Anet has stated many times that they are not against FARMING but they are against BOTTING.

so farming is ok. i farm a bit myself.

see my figures in the above post an being realistic.

3-6 months at only one or two hours per day gets you the top inem in the game for showing off.

1 year if you only farm a half hour per day and you might make more just playing the game than the farming.

if the most casual player can get the fissure armor what is the point of even bothering to get it?

it is a STATUS SYMBOL like a ROLLS ROYCE

can everybody afford one of those?

the fissure armor is the Rolls Royce of armor.

it shouts MONEY TO BURN and i have it.

necrozsi · Oct 18, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

All i have to say is, if fissure armor had better stats than drok armor, then u have the right to complain about it, since the majority of people cannot afford it and it would be unfair for the rich to have better stats on their armor.

BUT it doesnt, so boohoo the only reason ur complaining is u want the looks of the armor but cant afford it.

Sister Rosette · Oct 18, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Done flaming? Okay back to the facts.
Most of the folks that do have it, have payed a lot LESS for it. Which slap in the face again? Oops, they exploited the trader reset to get uber rich, uber fast. Now yes i see how they worked for it

. Then there might have been the 55/105 exploiters. Now that was honest work again? Uhm... no. That was merely abusing a skill.
Ebayers? Sure thing, they "earned" their FOW Armor. How did they work for it? RL Work does count? Sure thing i should have the FOW Armor asap then.

The list of examples goes on and on and on. Facts are: Most who have it did not have to put in those insane amounts of work you now have to put in. And i don't care if it is because others want the fissure armor too. 3 millions is simply way of the scale.

Done being an idiot? Okay, back to reality.

Not all of us are trader exploiting Ebay freaks. And the 55/105 isn't an
'exploit,' it's using a very specific skillset to farm. Clearly something you've
never used. The farming monks do have to WORK for the ecto that drops.
You can't just the ataxes nicely. Idiot.

And if Ebay and trader exploits are some magical time saver
that you make them out to be, perhaps you should give them a try,
instead of wasting everyone's time here and whining about
how expensive it is to get.

Pompeyfan · Oct 18, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

I keep reading the same responses - it's a money sink, it should be hard to get and need working for etc etc, but while these may be true, it's also true that the ecto and shards drop a lot more rarely now than they used to, so putting late comers at a disadvantage compared to early players. Having spoke to a few (one who has a stockpile he showed me of 500 ecto and 500 shards and 5 sets of fissure armour spread across 2 accounts), the phrase used was 'they used to drop like glittering dust does now' and 8 or 10 ecto in a decent UW ruin wasrn't unheard of. I've been playing 4 month';s and have no interest in farming, and in over 40 hours of the UW (probably more) I've had 5 ecto drops. I know fissure is only cosmetic - thats why i want it for my ranger, so i can have armour with druid stats without looking a tit, as druids ~(1.5k & 15k) looks daft.

My proposal is simple - want fissure armour to be hard to get and need to be worked for? easy, no ecto or shards as random droips, instead give 2 ecto in UW and 2 shards in Fissure as a quest reward to each party member when completing a quest - in one fell swoop, you have to work for fissure and actually play the game. It probably won't stop the farmers/ebayers from getting it, but they couldn't solo farm for shards/ecto anymore, but would at least give the latecomers a decent chance even if they would have to complete over 50 quests in each area (easily 100 hours worth of gameplay time). Also bare in mind, it's a lot harder for European players anyway, as we have favor a fraction of the time the US gets it (last stats I saw showed it split as 63% US/12% Europe/25% Korea), so that needs addressing too.

Raumoheru · Oct 18, 2005, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

So, by creating this mecca for all Guild Wars Money Collectors, they're just encouraging a good number of farmers to continue farming and looking for exploits to make them more powerful.

LOL

fissure armor does not make you more powerfull

lord_shar · Oct 18, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeyfan

...<SNIP>...

My proposal is simple - want fissure armour to be hard to get and need to be worked for? easy, no ecto or shards as random droips, instead give 2 ecto in UW and 2 shards in Fissure as a quest reward to each party member when completing a quest - in one fell swoop, you have to work for fissure and actually play the game. It probably won't stop the farmers/ebayers from getting it, but they couldn't solo farm for shards/ecto anymore, but would at least give the latecomers a decent chance even if they would have to complete over 50 quests in each area (easily 100 hours worth of gameplay time). Also bare in mind, it's a lot harder for European players anyway, as we have favor a fraction of the time the US gets it (last stats I saw showed it split as 63% US/12% Europe/25% Korea), so that needs addressing too.

The fixed quest drop doesn't sound too bad at all, though I wouldn't recommend making them quest-reward-only. This keeps it fair for both casual players and solo farmers alike.

Banebow · Oct 18, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeyfan

My proposal is simple - want fissure armour to be hard to get and need to be worked for? easy, no ecto or shards as random droips, instead give 2 ecto in UW and 2 shards in Fissure as a quest reward to each party member when completing a quest - in one fell swoop, you have to work for fissure and actually play the game.

Finaly, a good suggestion. But keep the random drops, perhaps reduced slightly, and make it only certain quests such as finishing all the eternal forgemaster's quests in FoW, and perhaps restoring all the monuments in UW.

Fissure armor is a status symbol. It stands for something. We all agree on this.

Now, look at what it stands for right now. It says you are filthy rich, or had an excellent gold item drop. What is should stand for is skill in the game. Farming takes skill? Ha. Ha ha.

I like the idea proposed because then someone like myself, who enjoys teaming up with his guild mates and doing a few quests would actualy stand a chance to get some of the cool-looking fissure armor. If you do not think it is cool, then great, you now have a way to earn some good gold for doing UW or FoW. People who farm could continue to farm, they could still buy shards and ectos either from the trader or from players who did not want them.

Not fair to all the players, mainly the ones who bought FoW armor before this change? I do not see how, the method they used to get FoW armor is no less viable, those saving for it would still be able to get it, and the cost of crafting it would stay steady. Only materials would change, but no one complains about the guy who buys all his ectos when they are 9k, when most have to pay 13k.

Perhaps you think these changes will just make FoW armor easier to get. Tell me, how many pick-up-groups have you been in who can, say, even make it to the crafter, much less do his quests? It takes a bit of skill to control the aggro properly, to handle unexpected situations and survive when surprised. Farming just takes time, nothing else. How many people do you see in ToA saying they will pay the group that gets them to the armor crafter? Do these people deserve to craft the armor that should represent a skilled long-time player?

Add this, with the changes I suggested, and it will not fix any of the current problems except one. The team players will stand a chance. The skilled players who hate farming will have a way.

saphir · Oct 18, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Fissure armor seems harder to get for 2 reasons now.

One, all the experienced players have moved on to better grazing fields now... Sorrow's Furnace. It used to be easy to get to the Fissure crafter w/ any old pug in toa. It was by no means hard, and takes only about 90 to 120 minutes for all 3 quests. I used to see groups have more trouble getting to the wailing lord than getting to the crafter.

In any case, these days Toa is quite deserted and populated by newer players with very little to no UW/FOW experience. Toa used to be the only place that experienced players could hang out so you were almost guaranteed a group with a several knowledgeable and experienced players. Last few runs I went to in fow/uw the groups had no clue what they were doing.. i'd never seen so many ghost talking, aaxte aggroing and solo monking parties slaughtered so quickly. Or the chicken sht warriors in fow who pussyfoot around the mobs, and then run screaming back towards the casters w/ a train of beserkers on their tail.

What's all this talk about wimpy farming anyways? The place to farm now is Sorrow's Furnace.. even if the greens have dried up a bit w/ the latest patch. I've still seen several high end green items that run for 60-100K drop each time I play, although sadly not for me. I did get a willcrusher the other day though =). In addition to the regular drops, I've gotten a sup vigor and absorption before from the chests using keys that have dropped in battle. If there's any place for plats to be made, it's sorrows. In a decent group, the Final Assault farming run can be made in 30 min per.

The second reason seems to be the pathetic glob drops in UW. I agree with the proposal that globs should be included as rewards w/ some quests. Although I think they should only be for the truly difficult quests, the ones that most players chicken out on. It's virtually impossible to find decent groups that are up for a challenge in UW. If globs were offered as rewards for completing the Ice King and 4 Horseman quests, a lot more people would actually start using their heads to try to figure out how to complete these "omg that's impossible" quests.

The reward system in UW has always been severely screwed up. After completely clearing uw - finishing all uw quests, reaper subquests, and clearing all mobs (we even killed the spider pets lol) we got nothing. No magical doors opened, no Gwen Fairy appeared to congratulate us, no magic chest of 100 ectos appeared. It was a complete let down. At least rewarding parties w/ ecto for completing _select_ (i can just imagine the "lfg totured soul ecto run" calls in toa) subquests would be a path towards rectifying this situation. Players may actually make an effort at coming up w/ new solutions to the harder uw quests instead of doing the same tired "smite runs" over and over again.

in any case, fissure armor is just plain ugly for some classes except for the female monk - which i have, because i never sold a single ecto that dropped for me even before i knew what they were for, and i went on many 4 person smite runs.

Mumoto · Oct 18, 2005, 07:33 AM // 07:33

FoW armor is a collectors type of armor, average player doesn't need it.

Sister Rosette · Oct 18, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumoto

FoW armor is a collectors type of armor, average player doesn't need it.

QUOTED FOR GREAT TRUTHFUL JUSTICE.<3

Mumoto · Oct 18, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

QUOTED FOR GREAT TRUTHFUL JUSTICE.<3

hehe thanks :P

Forgot to mention, if everyone was as easy as most of the quests and missions ... and this armor too... what would I be playing for? ;p

Loviatar · Oct 18, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

Now, look at what it stands for right now. It says you are filthy rich, or had an excellent gold item drop. What is should stand for is skill in the game. Farming takes skill? Ha. Ha ha.

.

if it were for skill it would be a PVP reward item for the best of the best.

guess what.............it isnt.

this is the PVE reward for putting in the effore from farming to running that it takes to EARN the best offered.

GET OVER IT

most people will not get it because they are so impatient, so busy with real life (honest congrats to them) , or simply not willing to work 6 months to get something, or keep blowing their money on that perfect sword/shield/item/etc.

this is not politically correct economics where everybody gets the grand prize on proportional effort..........i tried for a whole 3 weeks so i should be able to afford it like everybody else

Mumoto · Oct 18, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Banebow: Farming doesn't require skills, if you just follow up some other person's knowledge and have a good functioning team then you can farm as much as you want.

Pompeyfan · Oct 18, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

this is the PVE reward for putting in the effore from farming to running that it takes to EARN the best offered.

Not totally correct - your statement should read 'this is the PVE reward for putting in the effore from farming to running to buying the gold off ebay that it takes to EARN the best offered.'